THE LAROUCHE INTERVIEW: WHY WE PUBLISH THIS TRANSCRIPT
The transcript you are about to read is from a live radio
interview by Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr. on Tuesday morning, September
11, 2001. The interview was conducted by Jack Stockwell, of
radio station KTKK-AM (``K-Talk'') in Salt Lake City, and the
interview was also broadcast worldwide, live on the internet at
www.k-talk.com. It took place from 9:15-11:00 AM (EDT).
The LaRouche in 2004 campaign has decided to publish the
transcript because it affords the average citizen, as well as
government officials and other policy-makers, an opportunity to
read a blow-by-blow account of Mr. LaRouche's comments, as word
was coming in of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center
towers and the U.S. Pentagon. It was the unique circumstances of
LaRouche being interviewed, live, as the tragic events were
unfolding, that defines this interview as of particular
importance. LaRouche has had unique experience in tracking and
combatting such acts of irregular warfare, over decades, and his
running commentaries--as the news was first breaking, and as his
fellow citizens were responding to the news--should serve as an
important corrective to the kinds of errors that are already
being made by many among the so-called ``experts'' appearing on
the national and international news.
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The following interview was carried out on September 11,
2001, between Jack Stockwell, morning radio host on K-TALK radio
in Salt Lake City, Utah, and 2004 Presidential candidate Lyndon
LaRouche. It was conducted from 7:15 to 9 AM, Mountain Daylight
Time.
Announcer: This is the Jack Stockwell radio program. To
contact Jack from Salt Lake City, dial 254-5855. And now the
consummate voice of sense and sensibility himself, Jack
Stockwell.
Stockwell: Good morning, everybody. It is five and a half
minutes after 7:00 here on the eleventh day of September 2001. My
name is Jack Stockwell. I will be here for two hours this
morning. This morning's schedule, in about another 10 minutes,
is Lyndon LaRouche, an already preannounced candidate for the
2004 election in the Democratic Party.
I have been having LaRouche people on this program by
popular demand, as well as my own interest, for several years.
And occasionally, we get Mr. LaRouche himself on here. And we've
been able to do that this morning. He's scheduled to be a guest
at 7:15.
And there are a number of things to talk about, to talk to
him about. I'll talk to him for a while, and then we'd be more
than happy to entertain your phone calls.
So, I am sitting here looking at -- two planes have hit the
World Trade Center? Well, I'm looking at it right now at the
Internet, at MSNBC. There's a link on the very first page of
MSNBC. You're kidding. A second plane has hit the tower.
Well, that's unconfirmed. We just heard that. Well, the
picture I'm looking at, I can tell you right now how many
casualties there are. They're all casualties. Looking at this
picture I'm looking at. The smoke is just billowing out of the
top of the World Trade Center.
They're terrorist attacks? Well, you would think so. That
is one explosive-looking picture. If you have access to the
Internet, you want to go to www.msnbc. And then let's see here.
On the home page of MSNBC, you will find New York Disaster.
Witnesses: Plane Crashes into the World Trade Center.
Look at this, Josh. And then you link on to that, and
you'll go right to the picture of this building. There's this
huge, gaping hole about five or six stories from the top, and
smoke billowing out all over the building. That's got to be a
terorrist attack.
Someone just called in and said there's been a second one?
Just when one guy was reporting on it, another plane hit it?
Speaker: A jet.
Stockwell: A jet. My goodness. Well, you figure some of
these terrorists who are willing to wrap themselves up in a
dynamite vest and walk into a restaurant in downtown Jerusalemn,
and take out 50 people. I mean, how much harder would it be to
give them some intensive --
You know, you could take anybody on the street, and in two
weeks, they'll be flying a Lear jet. It's not that hard. Flight
is not that difficult. I have a multi-engine rating myself. And
it took about -- I don't know. It took six or seven hours for me
to solo the first time in a single engine.
I think it took me two hours of training to be able to solo
in a multi-engine, a twin engine airplane. I've never been able
to fly a jet, pilot a jet, but the aerodynamics -- I mean, the
aeronautical concepts are all the same.
You could take somebody in a matter of minutes, train them
to fly a jet. And, you know, with the way air traffic control
works, and the clear sky that the background picture of this on
the Internet scene I'm looking at right now displays, you don't
do stuff like this, unless you intend on doing stuff like this.
This is not an accident. At least, I wouldn't think so.
It says: Ambulances Rush to the Scene, No Word on
Casualties.
Well, a jet has got to be doing at least 130, 140 knots. Now
I could probably get down to 100 knots and stay airborne. But --
yes, suicide terrorist is probably what it amounts to.
Anyway, Lyndon LaRouche is scheduled to be my guest here
shortly. I'm sure that we will address that subject with him.
Don't go away.
What we're getting now, is it appears that one airplane hit
each of the two towers. And I mean, that's beyond coincidence.
Something -- some organizational thing. Many of you have already
turned on your television sets. You have the advantage over me,
because we don't have a TV here in the office, though we should.
But the picture that I'm looking at right now of MSNBC is
just incredible.
Who is that? Well, we just had Mr. LaRouche phone in. He
will be calling back on the other line quickly, and then we will
go from that. So, what I think I will do is -- he's here now.
We'll go ahead and address this.
And I want to give out a number several times here. Because
a lot of you, during the course of my discussion with Mr.
LaRouche or at least towards the end of the program, will want
some more information. So I'm going to give you a number now.
1-888-347-3258.
And if you will call, there will be people on the other end
of the line who will be happy to talk to you and clarify some of
the discussion that we're having.
Also, information regarding videos, pamphlets, anything else
of -- regarding what we're going to be discussing, will be
available by calling that number. 1-888-347-3258.
Well, I'm still sitting here looking at this incredible
picture, this incredible image in front of me of this burning
World Trade Center, as these two jets have just slammed. One jet
has slammed into each of the two towers.
So, we'll go ahead, and I'm going to go ahead and get my
guest on here with me. Mr. LaRouche.
LaRouche: Yes.
Stockwell: Good morning, sir.
LaRouche: Good morning, Jack.
Stockwell: Well, what a pleasure and an honor to have you
back on my program again. I was hoping to move the discussion
initially with what we were going to do here into the area of the
sublime.
LaRouche: Yes, right.
Stockwell: But now, with what has just happened in New
York, with this -- you know, interesting enough. Just yesterday,
I received -- I think it was just yesterday -- a bundle of
leaflets from your organization in Leesburg that I regularly pass
out in my office warning of terrorist attacks in America here
very shortly.
LaRouche: Yes.
Stockwell: And here we have the morning that you're on my
program, what's happening in New York at the World Trade Center.
I don't know if you've seen these images or pictures yet on the
television.
LaRouche: I haven't yet. I was just sitting up here
working, and just heard about it before I went to call you.
Stockwell: Yes. Well, the smoke is billowing out of the
one tower here. My wife called me a moment ago. And apparently
they caught, live, on film, the second jet smashing in to one of
the other towers.
LaRouche: Obviously, this is not exactly an accident.
Stockwell: No, sir. I don't believe it is.
LaRouche: I mean, it's not a coincidence. It's obviously
-- this is so remote in probability that there has to be
intention in this thing.
Stockwell: Well, it's one thing for somebody to strap on a
jacket made of dynamite and walk into a diner in downtown
Jerusalem. It's another thing to jump inside of a Lear jet and
go smashing in the side of a building like that.
LaRouche: The thing you have to look at, and the context in
which this is occurring, is two things. First of all, the first
suspicion that's going to be on this is Osama bin Laden. That
name is going to come up prominently, whether as suspicion or
just suspicion.
Stockwell: Certainly.
LaRouche: And the second thing, which is not unrelated to
the Osama bin Laden question, is this festival which is planned
-- really a terrorist festival for Washington, D.C.
Stockwell. At the end of the month.
LaRouche: Yes. We have a global process. Look, the
financial system's coming down. That's always a dangerous thing.
Because when the entire system is being shaken up the way it is
now, by the finacial collapse, political things happen, because
various people try to intervene and orchestrate events by
spectacular interventions, which will change, shall we say, get
public attention off one thing and put it on another.
So, this is obviously -- I mean, I cannot draw a conclusion,
except the circumstances tell me something rather evil is behind
this thing. And I don't know which, but they're both connected,
because I know the Goldsmith brothers -- for example, Jimmy
Goldsmith was key in helping to create -- he's now deceased --
Osama bin Laden and people like that. The Taliban and so forth.
And at the same time, his brother, Teddy Goldsmith, who is
still very much alive, is sort of the spiritual godfather of this
movement which is planning to inundate Washington, D.C., with
some pretty nasty stuff at the end of this month.
Stockwell: Something to a much greater degree than what
happened in Seattle.
LaRouche: Oh, absolutely. This thing went from Seattle --
Seattle was basically a terrorist operation. But, you know, if
you look at the history of how terrorist operations are run, you
would run a hardcore terrorist operation. And around it, they
would run sympathizer operations which were not necessarily
wittingly connected to the terrorist operation. But they were
run and coordinated simultaneously.
In Seattle, you had the so-called legitimate protest, wihch
was largely trade union-backed. But into the same scenario, you
had coming out of Canada, based in Canada -- and the
Canadian-U.S. border is rather leaky, you know. And they were
coming across in droves over there to do funny things.
Then you had the operation, a conference in Porto Alegre,
Brazil, just a short time ago, which Teddy Goldsmith chaired.
And this cuts into the people who are generally the ambiance of
international terrorism.
Then, from there, from Genoa, they went to some other
things. But the big thing -- from Porto Alegre to Genoa, where
they staged an upscale terrorist operation.
Now, from what I know of the details of the terrorist
operations being prepared in Maryland and Virginia for
Washington, D.C., where they're being prestaged, this is intended
to be much bigger than Genoa.
So, what you have is a challenge to the integrity of the
nation's capital, of what is ostensibly the most powerful nation
-- a nuclear power -- on this planet. And that is not funny.
Stockwell: If you can -- the FBI is now saying that a plane
was possibly hijacked for this attack. If you can do that with
the World Trade Center, what could you do with the White House?
LaRouche: Absolutely. I've been very concerned about this.
You know, I'm not very sympathetic with what some of these
agencies do. But I'm concerned, not just as a Presidential
pre-candidate. But I'm concerned with the security of the United
States and the peace of the world. And this is not good for the
health of the nation or the world. These things should not
happen.
And we could prevent this kind of stuff. But we just don't
do it, because, I don't know. Someone says let it happen.
Stockwell: How would you prevent terrorist activity?
LaRouche: Well, the thing is, if you don't -- if you
dispense with the myth that there are a number of unknown people
out there coming out of the mists, and nobody knows where they
come from, then you would say, How can you stop the terrorist
operations?
If you know how the world is actually organized, you know
you cannot organize a sustained preparation for terrorist
operations in any country without the backing of a powerful
government, or governments.
So that, if you know what the operation is -- and I would
say, you know, I have been warning against this Teddy Goldsmith
operation all along, because I know what it's connected to
politically. It's extremely dangerous.
And if I had been President, or in a similar position during
this period, I would have had an all-out, very discreet, but very
all-out and effective discussion with some other governments in
the world, and we together would have taken appropriate steps to
try to neutralize this kind of danger.
Of course, you can't be 100 percent in this sort of thing.
But you can do a pretty good job. And two planes. Now, that's
pretty big. That's -- one plane, that might not be preventible.
But two in the same short --
No, that's not small-time stuff.
Stockwell: No, this is pretty serious. Hold on a second
here, Mr. LaRouche. I have a traffic update I need to give my
listeners. Thanks a lot, Don.
Lyndon, is there any reason to assume that this would be
something other than Osama bin Laden?
LaRouche: Sure. There are many. Osama bin Laden is a
controlled entity. Osama bin Laden is not an independent force.
Remember how he came into existence. Osama bin Laden was a
wealthy Saudi arabian. Back in the 1970s, during the Carter
administration, or shall we say the Brzezinski administration,
the idea of running an Afghanistan war on the borders of Soviet
territory was cooked up by Brzezinski as a geopolitical
operation.
Well, Brzezinski was responsible. He didn't necessarily
cook it up. But all right. This thing started, and an
Anglo-American unit, running together with a certain section of
the Pakistani military, the funny-funny boys in the Pakistani
military, set up this operation.
The United States government and British government and
others -- that is, our funny-funny boys -- went out and recruited
a lot of Islamic people to fight communism and defend Holy Islam,
and so forth. That sort of line.
They recruited in many countries. And they deployed them.
Now later, they killed some of the same people they deployed.
You know, they're expendable. So they don't really have an
insurance policy that goes with their recruitment.
But they were recruited. Osama bin Laden was one of the big
funding agents of this, a funding conduit which was used by
people, among others, then-Vice President George Bush. This is
Iran-Contra, or what's called Iran-Contra, which I've called it
by other names which I wouldn't put on the air.
So this thing is left behind. And suddenly now we find
Osama bin Laden becomes the name. And Osama bin Laden could not
last, the way he's running around, if he didn't have big
protection. And it's not just from a section of the Pakistani
government or Afghanistan. It's from other governments who would
like to see the effects that Osama bin Laden produces thrown
around.
So, now you can blame Osama bin Laden. At some point, you
go in and kill him, and you say the problem was solved. But you
never considered who sent, who created Osama bin Laden, and who
protected him, and deployed his forces and name for these
purposes.
And as we saw in terrorism in Italy in the 1970s, for
example, the people who were running the so-called terrorist
operations in Italy, ware not really the groups that had the
credit for it. They were actually runaway NATO asset
organizations at a very high level. The same people that killed
the former prime minister Aldo Moro in that period.
So, in a case like this, don't assume that the popular names
that everybody knows, or that the FBI quotes and so forth, that
this is the real problem.
They may be part of the problem.
Stockwell: Well, our mind, especially in our degenerating
Western culture, always runs for the simple answer. We want the
kind of answer that will free us from our guilt and our
responsibilities of the neglect of our government and our fellow
man all these years. And so, we run to the simplistic.
And the simplistic, of course, is there; he is, the big, bad
bogey man from the Middle East, who has caused us so many
problems before. And I certainly understand what you're saying
there, that the more simple we can make the presentation, then
the less obligated any of us are.
Anyway, why would they be doing this? I mean, is there some
-- I mean, here we have a market crashing. We don't just have a
market crashing. We have an entire economy crashing within the
arena of a culture that's crashing.
LaRouche: Yes.
Stockwell. We are -- if war, massive war were to break out
in the Middle East any second, nobody would be surprised. If
Putin were to be assassinated, if Arafat were to be assassinated,
if Sharon were to be assassinated, nobody would be surprised.
I mean, we are sitting on powderkeg of powderkegs. And with
all of the other provocations that could occur around the world
to stop a lot of the economic unity and development that is
beginning to gain some momentum between the large powers on the
other side of the planet, why in the world fly a jet in the World
Trade Center?
LaRouche: This is to create a provocation inside the United
States. I mean, that's the only reason that would be done. As
you probably know -- for example, stories may come out that this
is done by some Arab group which is protesting the U.S.
government's sympathy for Sharon, or for the Israeli Defense
Force. I don't know if the Israeli Defense Force are going to
kill Sharon tomorrow, I mean, because there's real conflict
there. And these guys tend to shoot, then think.
But some story like that. But what we're into is a period
where the word is not terrorism. Terrorism is a part of the
picture. The word is ``destabilization.'' The problem part,
from my standpoint, is, look at our own government.
And we are, in a sense, still sort of a superpower. I think
the term is probably not quite appropriate for our present state
of affairs. But we used to be a superpower, and we still have a
dominant position in the world.
But what kind of a government do we have? Well, the Bush
administration. And the thing was crashing, you see poor
Secretary O'Neill babbling around. You see Rumsfeld has become a
joke in his own Defense Department.
Stockwell: Well, he's -- I think the newspaper slug I --
the one I just most recently read, was that he's going to take on
the Pentagon.
LaRouche: This is all a sideshow. The point is, President
George Bush doesn't function. He's been in there, and as I said,
this January 3rd, when I first announced and made a prognosis to
what his administration would be, it's been one catastrophe after
another.
Nothing he has proposed has actually worked. Some of the
things he proposed have been done, but they are disasters. And
he's not capable of being a President as such, unless he were
controlled by a group of advisers who would give him good advice
and solve his problems on how to deal with situations.
But he doesn't have that. He has a nut like Wolfowitz over
there underneath Rumsfeld nominally, who's actually running the
Defense Department. You have Armitage in the State Department,
and similar kinds of things.
These guys as I know them are nuts. And they are nuts in
there. Then you look at the Democratic Party. And you have the
statement from Daschle, who's the Senate Majority Leader now,
saying he can't do anything, it's up to Bush, the President, who
Daschle knows can't do anything.
Stockwell: Yes. Well, Daschle is saying -- I think he said
over the weekened something like, Well, you know, they've got
control of the House, and they've got control of the White House.
And we have a very slim majority in the Senate, and boy, there's
just nothing we can do.
LaRouche: Well, he's wrong, and he knows it. Because I've
got a certain position in the Democratic Party, despite what Al
Gore would like to think. And I could be in a position very
easily to steer these guys into doing things that would begin to
work, even with the limited strength the Democratic Party has
today.
And I think that if the Party would do some of those things,
we would do two things. We would not only be able to move and
shake the population a bit into believing there's somebody up
there that might help them, you'd also find a number of
Republicans who are not nuts, and who are simply patriotic, and
will listen to reason, who would cooperate with the Democrats in
doing some of the things we have to do. We have a vacuum of
leadership.
Stockwell: With all of the ills and the evils and the
mistakes and the corruption that might have been involved with
the Clinton Administration, at least when you called the White
House, there was somebody there that would answer the phone.
LaRouche: (Laughs) And especially when Bob Rubin was there
helping Clinton out. I may not have approved of what Bob did
many times, but at least he was competent.
Stockwell: Yes, exactly. Now we've got a situation where
I'm afraid there would probably just be a recording inviting you
down to the ranch.
Now, there was a recent comment here on the television a few
moments ago that Bush would be making comments relative to this
terrorist attack. This is the biggest thing since probably
Oklahoma.
LaRouche: Much bigger.
Stockwell: Well, yes. I think the implications of this
will be much bigger.
LaRouche: It's much bigger.
Stockwell: You know, when Oklahoma first happened, the
first two or three days -- and I remember, I was glued to the
television set. The first two or three days, there was a large
implication towards the Middle East and the Arabs that were
running around town.
And then they kind of covered that up, and that was out of
the picture, and they never mentioned it any more.
LaRouche: Well, largely, this is a domestic covert
operation, which we had word of beforehand. Everybody had the
word, and if I had been President, I mean, on the basis of just
what I knew, I would have taken certain actions immediately,
which would -- security/surveillance actions in anticipation of
exactly that kind of problem.
So, we were not mystified. The problem is that fun and
games is being played by various institutions, and we don't have
anybody really effectively in charge.
Stockwell: Now, Bush just made a comment. He said, The
plane was an American Airlines Boeing 767 out of Boston. And
they don't know whether there were any passengers on it or not.
They think that it was a hijacked airplane.
But a Boeing 767 from Boston was the plane tthat did it.
And the President has guaranteed everybody he's going to bring
the terrorists to justice. And he's talked to the Governor of
New York, and they're going to bring them to justice. And he
said, God bless the victims. It's a little late for that.
LaRouche: As a matter of fact, that is the worst thing he
can do. If he would have said, "Of course, we are going to go
get to the bottom of this, and deal with it in an appropriate
way," that would be the right thing to say.
Stockwell: Yes.
LaRouche: But to say that he's going to solve the problem
by bringing somebody to justice, that is the worst thing he can
say.
Stockwell: Yes. Because again, it goes back to -- just to
underscore what you were saying at the very beginning, that if we
can find a couple of guys running around New York right now,
trying to get out of town, or Boston, or wherever the thing took
place, trying to hurry up and get on the next ship back to Saudi
Arabia or whatever, like that was the end of the problem.
But as you were pointing out there at the beginning, it's
just part of a network, a network that can only exist by the
support and the organizational strength of some major superpower
on the planet.
LaRouche: I can make a flat statement on that, Jack.
Stockwell: Please.
LaRouche: If I were President of the United States right
now, I would have already acted before this happened, not even
knowing that this was going to happen.
And I would have had the following cooperation. I would
have had cooperation from Russia, from Germany, from France, from
Italy. I probably would have gotten a good deal from certain
forces in Britain as well.
And we would have -- and Japan, and China. And Arab
countries, including Egypt. And we would have put our heads
togehter real quick, pooling our resources, and said, whether we
agree on other issues or not, this kind of thing is not going to
happen, and we're going to see to it it doesn't.
And that would work. The problem is, you've got the foolish
President of the United States-- and I say that advisedly. A
friend of mine just said in Massachusetts, and he's running for
office up there, for a Congressional seat. He said Bush can't
even defend his daughters from being bombed.
Stockwell: (Mr. Stockwell laughs.) Well, that took me a
second. Bush can't even protect his own daughters from being
bombed. Well, out of respect for what's just happened here,
still, that's hilarious.
LaRouche: Well, you've got to have a sense of humor even in
the worst situation. If you don't, your head is not cool, and
your judgment will not be clear. I always advise my friends, the
worse it gets, the more laughter you'd better be able to
generate. If you haven't got a sense of humor about any
situation, no matter how serious --
Remember what Roosevelt did? Roosevelt did two things in
running for President after the disaster that Coolidge bestowed
on Hoover. Roosevelt started his campaign in West Virginia, with
the famous statement talking about the Forgotten Man.
And then, when he entered office, he addressed the American
people with the theme, There's nothing as much to be feared as
fear itself. And the key thing -- we've got a citizenry, a
frightened citizenry, a frightened and confused world, who are in
the state of denial, because they're frightened.
They wish to deny this crisis. They wish to believe that
the thing is going to bounce back miraculously tomorrow, that
suddenly the NASDAQ will suddenly jump out of its grave and
suddenly become prosperous again.
The time now is needed, to reassure, in particular, the
American people that somebody is in charge, that those persons in
charge know what they're doing, and they're going to fix the
situation, and they will call upoon the American people for
support as needed.
That would work. But this kind of thing, of
vengeance-seeking and snarling and growling to prove how mad you
are, this isn't government. This is side-show. This is Bozo the
Clown putting on an act.
Stockwell: So we've got a situation here where this could
just be the beginning, esxpecially with what we've got coming up
with the Jacobin terrorist activity that a lot of people are
expecting in Washington at this big summit at the end of
themonth, because --
I mean, we are so vulnerable now. When you were mentioning
all these other countries that could get together and stop this,
any one of them are vulnerable. But there seems to be an
increasing vulnerability within the United States, as we sink
deeper into denial, and bury our heads in the sand, and then go
back to the old tried and true methods of fear-based living that
we've always done with before, where our millennial fears and our
Armageddonist concerns, and all these things, start coming back
to the surface.
And we get our old barking dog outfits out of the closet,
and get them back on again. Incidents like this in the midst of
an economic crish, in the midst of a morality crash, could be the
beginning of a provocation of some serious setbacks in this
country, just from our own Justice Department.
Just from -- you know, anything like this could get to a
situation where we could find our own liberties in this country
in serious attack, just because of the level of incompetence that
exists in the government in leadership positions, backed up or at
least undergirded to some degree, by some very malicious
personalities that have been in the Justice Department and
Defense Department for decades waiting for the right provocation
to occur to move in to their crisis management operations.
LaRouche: And it won't work. The point is, they're idiots.
And, you know, I really pity the current President. You know,
and you know, I really pity the current President. He's not a
friend of mine. His father certainly was not a friend of mine.
But, he's President, and I think of him sitting in the office,
and I realize the poor man has no conception, and no capability,
of understanding what the world situation is, and what is
actually hitting him.
He's got a Treasury Secretary O'Neill who certainly does not
inspire confidence in any sane observer. You've got Wolfowitz
who's a nut. You've got Armitage, another nut. You've got
problems... And then you look at the Democratic Party -- you see
this crazy Lieberman, running around with this faith-based
initiative. This is silly stuff! You see Daschle ducking, bobbing
and weaving, so he doesn't take a punch.
Here we are in a crisis, a financial crisis, now we have
this terrorist thing, which probably indicates that more things
are on the way, but maybe of a different variety, but on the way
-- and we have no leadership. You have the American people
sitting out there, being more and more frightened as this kind of
thing occurs, and they look up, and they go into the cockpit to
see who's flying the plane that's in trouble, and they find a
three-year old kid sitting in the pilot seat, and nobody else
there.
That's what our problem is. That's our biggest problem. We
have the means to deal with the worst kind of problem that I can
envisage is likely to happen now. But if we don't have the
leadership, if we don't reach out to the kind of cooperation we
could have, that I know I could have, with key parts of the
world, other countries, ...
Stockwell: Yes -- traffic update...
Don, you're on the Stockwell show.
Don: Hello. We're getting some other reports here, we want
to confirm, regarding some more terrorist activity occurring at
other sites.
LaRouche: Really?
Don: But I don't want to mention it over the air, because I
would like to have that confirmed before I say what somebody just
called in and said...
Stockwell:
Gee whiz, this is quite a day. What a day! You know, we're
sitting out here in the middle of this vast emptiness in the
West, and we're removed from the East Coast culturally, we're
removed politically, we are removed economically; we've kind of
got this Marlboro man attitude out here in the West that: "Well,
hell with New York, and they're all a bunch of queers anyway."
And, as we go into deeper denial, trying desperately...
I have been reporting to my listeners for some time now,
every step of the breakdown that I've been able to investigate
and report, and get clear in my own mind, of the economic
collapse, of the political collapse, and we've seemed to escape
it to a large degree. But now we're starting to have significant
layoffs occurring in Utah, and it's finally becoming very real
around here, that we aren't a separate people. We're not this
unique group of pioneer progeny, that tamed the West, and we can
tame any other kind of a problem. We are in the same ship, the
ship has hit the iceberg, we don't have enough lifeboats, and
what we need right now desperately is a captain who knows how to
keep the ship alive long enough, to keep it on the surface of the
water.
And, as we get more and more of these indications,
constantly,... I like the comment that you made there a moment
ago, about the NASDAQ jumping back out of the grave -- the
implication, of course, is that it's dead.
The little kinds of -- what, a plane? A plane has flown into
the Pentagon. They've had an explosion at the Pentagon now.
LaRouche: That's confirmed?
Stockwell: I don't know if that's confirmed or not, it must
be coming in from another... What's the source of that?
CBS is reporting that a plane has flown into the Pentagon.
LaRouche: I hope that somebody's got some reports of where
these planes were coming from...
Stockwell: Well, one of the planes that hit the World Trade
Center, was definitely confirmed as an American Airlines 767
hijacked out of Boston. They haven't announced yet whether there
was anybody on the plane or not.
LaRouche: Must have been. There must have been. The point
is, unless there's really a goofup. Because, how can a plane take
off, without clearance? And if it's taking off without clearance,
it becomes an immediate security problem.
Stockwell: Yes. ... The Pentagon? It is confirmed now, on
several news sources, that the Pentagon is experiencing
explosions right now. My goodness!
LaRouche: They mean business!
Stockwell: They're evacuating the White House at the moment,
and yes, obviously, they mean business. ...
LaRouche: This is a very systematic operation. If they're
snatching planes... if all three of these planes -- the two we
have from New York and this thing on the Pentagon -- to get that
kind of thing, to snatch planes like that, that's a pretty
sophisticated operation.
Stockwell: Oh, yeah. This isn't a bunch of malcontents, of
some grass-roots organization, finally striking back. You're
going to have to have some rather heavy-duty intelligence
network, and some real intelligence experience with this.
LaRouche: The question is, where were the relevant
intelligence agencies which are in charge of monitoring this
problem? Now, I've been putting this out for some time -- not
this, I didn't know this airplane thing, but I assumed almost
anything could happen... but on the Washington, D.C. targetting.
So obviously, the Pentagon means that this is obviously, clearly
a Washington, D.C. targetting. This is obviously intended to
imply something coming out of the Middle East. This means that
there's been some kind of either incompetence or fix on the whole
security operation, because you CAN'T get this kind of thing
without a real goofup, on the security side. So somebody in
charge of security was really not very effectively in charge.
You can't go around snatching planes in a coordinated
fashion, like this. You can't do it. Somebody has to be really
sloppy.
Stockwell: Well, we've got... you know. If this were arising
from some Middle East effect, it's been almost a year now since
the Clintons did their about-face with the Palestinians, in order
to secure election for Hillary with the Jewish vote in New York.
And ever since then, I don't know what the death count is --
between 2 and 3000 maybe, in the Middle East, just because of
Hillary's need to get the Jewish vote.
LaRouche: Well, I think that that was something that fell in
there.
Stockwell: Well, that's probably true, but then Sharon's
march up the Temple Mount stairs...
LaRouche: It's not Sharon. Sharon did, but it's not Sharon's
operation. That sort of thing comes from the inside of the
Israeli Defense Forces, and that Sharon is virtually a civilized
human being compared to some of those guys in there. And I've
been afraid that they might kill him, in order to use his
killing, as a pretext for using, shall we call, weapons of mass
destruction, against places like Baghdad, and Damascus, and
Teheran.
Stockwell: Were they the forces behind Rabin's
assassination?
Stockwell: The same crowd. Absolutely. And there are people
in the United States, who politically, in a sense, are authors of
the production of some of these nuts, who have been shipped into
Israel, to increase the problem there.
Then of course, you have the operation, which is, you have
them in the Arab world, you have some of the same people who are
running the Israeli nuts, are also running an operation, by
recruiting certain Islamic nationals, people of Islamic
persuasion, to do similar kinds of things, in order to set -- rub
two sticks together to make a fire.
Stockwell: All right. These are not isolated events. There's
some orchestration, some intelligence, behind all of this. This
isn't just the IDF, it isn't just Osama bin Laden, or somebody
wanting to bring down the infidel in the name of Allah. We've got
it confirmed now, the White House is being evacuated, the
Pentagon is evacuated; it was just a fire, it wasn't a bomb, but
they have a record of a U.S. military helicopter circling the
Pentagon, and then there was a massive fireball ...
LaRouche: Could be a bomb on a truck or something...
Stockwell: Yes, it could be another truck bomb. Those
shaped-charges have proven to be very effective in the past. So,
where does this end, then? Not in the sense of in the future,
where does end in the sense of organization? Where's this going
back to, Lyndon? Who's doing this?
LaRouche: This goes back, in a sense, to me. Because what's
happened is, the United States no longer has leadership, that is,
efficiently. The present Presidency, the Republican Party as an
organization in the Senate and the House, is a complete moral and
intellectual disaster. There are some good people in there, but
there's not a leadership, a unified leadership, or anything like
coherence.
In the Democratic party, the Democratic Party in the Senate,
which is now a has-been, slim margin of majority in the Senate,
is not ... there's no leadership! It has no response to the
reality of the present period. And when you have the leader of
the Senate Democrats, the leader of the house there, saying that
he's not going to do anything, because it's up to George Bush --
and he knows that George Bush can't do anything of significance
-- it's complete irresponsibility!
And then all the other institutions, political institutions,
party institutions -- the problem is, is that people have for so
long, have believed so deeply in the kinds of changes in culture
which were introduced over the past 35 years, especially since
Nixon ran his Southern Strategy, that campaign; that we have lost
our sense of leadership in the nation, we've lost our sense of
what the United States' leading role must be, not because of
somebody's ego, but because of our responsibility to the world at
large.
I know, from my direct personal experience, and I have it,
you know, in a lot of countries -- South America, Central
America, different parts of Asia, Russia, Germany, Eastern
Europe, Italy, and so forth, India -- I know people in these
countries. If I were in a position of leadership in Washington,
and either President, or advising a President, I know how to deal
with this kind of problem.
We in the world have the resources. The United States has
the ability to get the cooperation from those resources. What I
fear now is that some fool is going to say, "No, we're going to
go along with the existing team -- the existing team is what is
causing the problem, it's fatal."
Stockwell: ... The FAA has just grounded all flights in the
United States. This hasn't happened since World War II. All
flights are now grounded in the United States.
- [traffic break] -
Stockwell: Apparently, what we got here, there are FAA
flights in the air, of course, which are being brought down, or
being told to come down. President Bush is currently in
Washington state [sic], at an elementary school, talking about
education.
LaRouche: Doesn't do much for education, but maybe it keeps
him calm.
Stockwell: Yeah, but he says he's going to get to the bottom
of this in a hurry. There are pictures of Air Force One -- all
flights are halted except Air Force One, and it's coming back to
Washington. Maybe he's already on the plane. But the Pentagon's
evacuated, the White House is evacuated. Gosh, maybe Leesburg
better evacuate.
You know, there has been a history of distractions that have
been perpetrated to try to keep... all of this Gary Condit stuff,
you know, things like this, just distractions to keep people's
minds away from what is taking place, of a much more serious
nature, not the least of which is what is happening in the market
place, the stock exchange, and all the exchanges, for that
matter.
This, I guess, is going to be the distraction of all time.
It's hard to imagine this. We've got a break coming up here
shortly. I think we have you scheduled for another hour, don't
we, Lyn?
LaRouche: Yes, something like that.
Stockwell: Good, because we can all take a look at the
television during the NBC news break. I can imagine what they're
going to be talking about on the radio. And then we can get back
together at 8 o'clock and get that going.
But we have just a couple of more minutes here. And that is,
we're dealing with a mindset here, that is certainly not oriented
to the Preamble of our Constitution. And in fact, I don't know
that they're even oriented towards any basic Judeo-Christian
thought, in the divine nature of man, but more in the sense of
some misguided Darwinian concepts, that we are part of an
evolutionary tree that needs to be curbed, and culled, and
husbanded, and who will stop at nothing. Who else... what else, I
have no reason... there's no way to substantiate this, but jets
into a building is one thing, but there's a lot of other things
that can be done with our water supply, and our air, and the
biological-chemical stuff, that could be going on right now, that
isn't quite as obvious as an exploding office building in
downtown New York.
LaRouche: The problem is now what this is going to generate.
Obviously, just as you indicate, it's going to generate--
Whatever happens really, that is, in actuality, the paranoia is
going to produce effects just as if it had happened, even if it
didn't.
Stockwell: Yes, because that's how we work, isn't it? And
the thing that worries me the most about this, is not that the
initial attack may be over with, but what will be a leaderless
government's response to this?
LaRouche: That's a good question. This could be the worst
thing the United States could do to itself.
Nobody trusts the United States abroad right now. This, the
election, what happened on November 7 last year, what happened in
the Supreme Court...
Stockwell: Well, it was a coup! It was a Supreme Court coup
for the White House.
LaRouche: But all these things, from the standpoint of
Europeans, and others abroad, looking at the United States...
Japan is on the edge. It's taken about all it can take in terms
of blackmail from the United States. China has reconciled itself
to the fact that the United States, as the market of last
option...
Stockwell: Same with Mexico..
LaRouche: The same thing. The President of Mexico,
presumably the one guy who George W. Bush would know where to
find him, came to Washington to meet with the President; brought
up an agenda which the President should have been informed about
beforehand, undoubtedly was; and the President meets with
President Vicente Fox on this question of immigration, which we
ought to have a working understanding on. If you don't have the
final solution, at least you can be working on it, and say we're
going to work on it. We don't. He turned it down, the President.
Publicly turned it down.
Sent the President of Mexico, presumably the only man, the
only President on this planet who really liked, or tried to like
George Bush, and he sends him packing to Mexico in desperation,
to face a political crisis which the United States in a sense is
imposing upon its neighbor Mexico. This is the kind of thing that
people around the world, seeing this happen to the United States,
if the President reacts, in "We're going to get revenge, we're
going to teach everybody a lesson," the President will have the
worst possible effect for the United States. This is not the way
to react.
- [break] -
Stockwell: That ought to really give you some hope and
confidence that George Bush Jr. would be directing a world war!
LaRouche: The myth of the thing about Pearl Harbor, was that
Roosevelt planned it. You had some people who spread that myth.
They say that because they wish to believe it. Not because they
have any evidence. The evidence is quite to the contrary: The
British had organized Japan, to bomb Pearl Harbor, to attack it
in a naval attack on Pearl Harbor, back at the beginning of the
1920s, when the British were allied with Japan against the United
States, on the question of the naval power. This was the thing
that Billy Mitchell talked about, in his court martial. He wasn't
particularly liked for that. But what happened is, contrary to
what the U.S. expected, because they did send the aircraft
carriers out to sea, because of the tension with Japan at that
point, in order not to put the aircraft carriers at risk from the
Japanese Navy. You saw what happened at Midway later, as a result
of that wise decision.
Stockwell: Yeah, and the Coral Sea.
LaRouche: Some people would like to think that if you
convince the American people that Pearl Harbor has been bombed
again, that you can use that effect, which I saw on the streets
on Sunday, that famous Sunday, December 7, 1941, you can use that
event to mobilize the American people, particularly under the
conditions of present denial and hysteria about the economy, and
so forth, they can do something and mobilize the United States in
a foolish direction. This would drive the world berserk. To think
that you have lunatics in the United States, who would even
threaten to go to world war over a thing like this.
Instead, we should recognize we've made some mistakes and
correct them real fast and coolly, with as little panic as
possible.
Stockwell: I've got another one for you. The smoke in
downtown Manhattan is clearing, and there is no second tower.
LaRouche: That I can understand. It's awful, but, those of
us who --
Stockwell: What response can the United States possibly have
now?
LaRouche: The United States needs a Franklin Roosevelt, who
will say we have nothing to fear as much as fear itself. Yes, we
have things to fear, but nothing as much as fear itself. Nothing
as much as panic itself. This is the time for cool heads. You do
not win wars by panicking, by flight-forward. What I'm afraid of
from this White House is, because of its very weakness, it would
tend to go into flight-forward.
What I'm afraid of from this White House is, because of its
very weakness, it will tend to go into flight-forward. Actually,
George W. Bush is not exactly a combat veteran. So, you don't
expect him -- I mean, he may have been in the National Guard,
down in Texas -- but he's not the kind of guy you'd want in
charge of a military major unit in time of war. You want somebody
with a cool head. You want the MacArthurs at time of war. You
want commanders like that. You want leaders like that, who do not
blow their gaskets, even in the face of the most horrible
penalties, do not lose self-control. I'm afraid that the people
in Washington are going to delight and are having a sexual
fantasy about losing self-control. They're going to pull out some
kind of favorite horror movie and try to act that out as a
scenario.
Stockwell: This advice, of nothing to fear but fear itself,
goes right down to the last man listening to this program right
now. We have people in Washington right now, I can see them
sitting at a table, saying, "We have got to have the President
order martial law immediately."
LaRouche: Absolutely.
Stockwell: That kind of crazy thinking.
LaRouche: Absolutely. The worst thing they can do. It's the
worst thing for the security of the United States to pull a stunt
like that. Anyone who would do it has to be a real, certifiable,
historical idiot!
Stockwell: What can be, what should be, the U.S. response in
the next 24 to 48 hours to this?
LaRouche: I would hope that some of these guys get smart
enough to call me up. Because there are people that I would think
of as the kind of team that could be pulled together, as a
special team, to advise the President and other institutions on
how to respond to this. That could reach out to other governments
informally, for the {informal} kind of cooperation which would
make the {formal} cooperation work.
Stockwell: All right, I've got a couple of people with some
questions for you, if you don't mind.
LaRouche: Sure.
Stockwell: I'm going to go ahead and bring you folks on the
air, along with Lyndon LaRouche. Ryan, you're on the Stockwell
show.
Ryan: Hi, Lyndon. It's exciting to talk to you. I really
hadn't been introduced to your movement till I started listening
to the Jack Stockwell show, but I'm finding you have quite a few
interesting things to say. Boy, Jack's been talking about this
crap for a long time, and I'll tell you, it's really scary. I
wanted to see if maybe you thought that maybe this was an
oligarchical ploy, to gain power, at a key time. Or maybe this is
just a random terrorist attack.
LaRouche: No, it's not random. This is obviously a highly
planned attack by a very capable agency, this kind of thing. If
it is coordinated, as portrayed, and I see no reason to work on
any other working hypothesis at this time; if it becomes less,
fine -- be grateful. But this already is a horror show of the
first magnitude.
Ryan: Oh my heck, I can't believe it. I can't believe they
even collapsed the tower.
LaRouche: Oh, but this couldn't happen -- this is not
amateur night. This is big. Therefore we need, the first thing we
need, is cool heads.
Ryan: I agree. And that's what I'm afraid of. Just like Jack
said, I'm afraid of them declaring martial law. I can just see it
as plain as day, them saying they need to come and --
LaRouche: That would be the end of the United States. The
United States could not take martial law. It would disintegrate.
Ryan: I know they couldn't take it, and that's what I'm
afraid of. I mean, omigosh, I can't believe how scary it is, if
they -- And I guess I just see them doing it, as plain as day,
that's the thing that terrifies me.
LaRouche: You get some Ku Klux Klan mentalities who would
think that would work, but anybody who knows anything, knows that
this country, right now, is morally very fragile. This country
can disintegrate as a nation; it's very fragile, as a result of
what's been done to it.
Largely as a result of the entertainment that's supplied it.
Look at what appears on television, other forms of mass
entertainment.
Ryan: And I think it's all been a ploy over the last 50
years by the oligarchy to obtain the power that they want over
this country.
LaRouche: Well, it's actually to change the world in a
certain way. But I'm not drawing any conclusions beyond what I
know, because I have to be cool at this time, because I'm
vindicated, in a sense, therefore I have not got the luxury of
indulging myself in any wild speculation. I have to be cool, and
anything I say, I have to be right.
Ryan: I'm glad that we have a person who's going to be --
LaRouche: So, I'll say what I know, but I'm not going to
leap to conclusions. I'm going to see what the facts are, but in
the meantime I know the first thing is, keep cool, especially
those who are in leading positions.
Ryan: I agree. I appreciate your time, Lyndon.
Stockwell: Thanks, Ryan.
What happened, what they're saying now, Lyn, is that the
second plane flew into one of the structural corners of the
second building, knowing that it would bring that -- they think
that's what brought the second one down, was that the plane --
obviously, well, I don't know obviously, because I don't know
either, but I would suspect that anybody that would be going to
that kind of an extreme move, would have those planes loaded with
sufficient explosives.
LaRouche: Well, the fuel alone is something, you know.
Shortly after takeoff, a fuelled plane has a certain amount of
explosive potential.
No, I just think we've got to get more evidence on it. But
obviously, what we know is that this is, doesn't conform to any
coincidence of any kind.
Stockwell: ... When we come back, I want to talk about what
the IDF would be trying to accomplish with an act like this.
[traffic break]
Stockwell: 23 minutes after the hour, my guest Lyndon
LaRouche. I've often told you, ladies and gentlemen, that my
source of information that I use relative to my radio programs,
comes from a majority of sources from around the planet.
Newspaper headlines out of Germany, out of China, out of Russia,
out of South America, France, Italy, the British Isles. And one
thing that is predominant in international media, that you do not
see in the United States media, is the discussion of Mr. LaRouche
and his ideas regarding a new Bretton Woods, individual state
sovereignty, the end of this economic system, in the sense that
it has to be completely reorganized, or, what has happened --
these are my words -- what has happened in Manhattan, what
happened to the rest of world, financially.
And I have often talked about that, I have given you phone
numbers where you can check in the information yourself. I've had
information in my office that you can come by, in my clinic, to
pick up additional information. And what is going on right now,
I've been talking about three to four years, ever since my
association with Mr. LaRouche, in the sense of the orchestration
of events leading in this particular direction, to force the
United States to come to war, in the Middle East. And I've talked
about that, I've talked about how I don't want to see my sons
going to war in the Middle East, but I can't help but see that
day materializing before me.
Lyn, is the American government crazy enough right now, to
have a war response to this?
LaRouche: Well, try stupid enough.
Stockwell: All right.
LaRouche: Then, that's possible.
Stockwell: And who would they go shooting at?
LaRouche: Well, they would just react.
Stockwell: More intensified bombings of Baghdad, or
something stupid like that.
LaRouche: Or some foolish thing. They would react out of
stupidity.
See, the problem here is, that years ago, we had certain
criteria like industry, agriculture, science, physical reality.
And therefore you ahd a population which would look at things in
a practical way, in the way a progressive farmer, the way a small
entrepreneurial industrialist would look at things, an engineer,
and so forth. We don't have that anymore. We have a population
which lives more and more in fantasy land. And we have leaders
who were selected.
Look, let me be frank. I think this is a time we've got to
be very honest, no strained politeness.
Look, we had two idiots running for President as of, up to
Nov. 7 of last year. One dumb, with a real bad combination around
him. And you had the other one, who was a mental case, of a
different kind, Gore. This is a fact. This is a reality -- this
is not the time to be polite, or to be diplomatic. And,
therefore, what happened is, the institutions, including the mass
media, the moneybags of various parts of the country, put their
money behind these two specimens.
Now, I was the best qualified, but put that aside. You had
other people, like Kerry in Massachusetts, for example, and other
people, who were more qualified -- they were sane. And even if
they had shortcomings, if you put them in the Oval office, and
put a good bunch of advisers around there, you might get a good
process of government out of them. We don't.
So, what we have is, is we have an American people, which
sat there and watched, while what they knew to be a mental case
and a dummy, were the only available Presidents of the United
States, and anybody who understands what the Presidency of the
United States means, as an absolutely unique quality of
institution on this planet, would realize the importance of
having a qualified President in that office at the time when the
financial crisis, the global monetary crisis, was inevitable. And
these two clowns -- and Lieberman as well -- the
Vice-Presidential candidate, didn't say a word, about the crisis,
the financial crisis, which was then oncoming. People have lost
tens of trillions of dollars globally, from the collapse of this
system. In one sector of the U.S. financial market alone, three
trillion dollars, which hit a lot of poor people, as well as
others, who were putting their savings there, hoping to get that
extra nickel to stretch their pension -- that sort of thing.
We have a bubble that's about to burst in real estate now.
So, these issues are facing us, and nobody was paying attention
to any of the obvious, massively obvious, real issues coming up.
So, now you've got a population which, if you read the print
press, you look at the so-called television news, of various
kinds, including the stuff that's on websites, and you see
absolute gibberish and idiocy. So what do you expect? The
American people have no sense of what the reality of the real,
current situation is, and therefore you have leaders who don't
even want to know what reality is -- they want to have a fantasy.
And it's extremely dangerous.
We've got to get cooler heads together, now, and put some
direction into this. But I'm really afraid of what would happen,
if you leave the decision to be made in the hands of just the few
who are the obvious ones right now, in power.
Stockwell: Well, this could -- you know, I'm thinking that
it's almost impossible for the United States to not do anything.
You know, when you looked at what happened in Oklahoma City,
nothing on this scale. Nothing against, I'm sorry for the people
whose lives were lost and families and such, but this, if this is
as bad as I think it is, what happened today, the United States
can't just do nothing.
LaRouche: Well, the United States, first of all, the
President of the United States, or someone who's next to him,
who's intelligent, should immediately call President Putin of
Russia. And between the two of them, they should talk to all the
key leaders in France, Germany, Italy, and so forth. Japan, as
well. Bring the Chinese in on it. The Chinese will have their own
reaction, but bring them in on it. Through a group of leaders.
And say, this has happened in the United States. "You guys
all know what this kind of thing means. Let's put this thing,
this genie back in the bottle." And, that's what has to be done.
Then tell the American people you're doing it. Say, "We are
not going to allow this kind of situation, which obviously had
roots, to continue. We and other nations are going to cooperate
to bring this under control." That's what the American people
have to hear from the President, or somebody around him, or
somebody else in charge. Maybe Don Rumsfeld, maybe Powell, Colin
Powell, is the guy to deliver that message. But somebody's got to
deliver that message now.
Stockwell: A conjointed effort, among the -- Now, this is
just in. Another plane has been hijacked, and it's en route to
Washington, D.C. right now.
LaRouche: They'll probably shoot it down now.
Stockwell: Well, they're going to have to. If they're aware
of that, they'll have to shoot it down. Oh, my goodness.
LaRouche: This is like the wildest of your Hollywood
scenarios.
Stockwell: Well, I mean, Orson Welles, and his War of the
Worlds thing out of New Jersey, back in the '30s. Could it have
been any more real than this? This is absolutely incredible.
LaRouche: I think there have probably -- then, if this is
happening, all the more reason for somebody to do what I
suggested.
Putin would accept a call, of course, from Bush. Bush, say
he's calling on his behalf, put the right people on the phone.
It's still daytime in Moscow, or evening time -- 10 hours
difference. So, to call him right now. And to call the relevant
people in Germany, France, somebody in London -- I don't know
that that dumb Prime Minister's any good for anything, but -- and
Italy. And Japan. And China. And a few other countries. Consult
with them. Set up a consultative arrangement. Say, we're going to
stop this thing now. That's what it takes.
Stockwell: Do we have the leadership, though, to support
that? Do we have the orientation? I mean, we've got three
different basic levels of thinking that exist inside Washington
right now. You've got this Brzezinski-Huntington clash of
civilizations kind of concept; you have Ashcroft and Armitage and
that group; and then you've got another group that is a little
oligarchical in their design as well, in the sense of bringing
everything in totally under control of Wall Street.
You know, if you had -- I mean, I can't think of a Sargeant
York mentality in Washington.
LaRouche: I think it's perfectly legitimate for -- See, the
President of the United States has certain constitutionally
inherent emergency powers. I would not really declare a national
emergency -- that's probably the wrong thing to do, because it
would activate the wrong things. But I would use the emergency
powers of the President, and I would use the person of George W.
Bush. He's President after all! Forget how he got there -- he's
President. He has got to, as President, to enter into an
emergency discussion, with prominent leaders of other nations,
and to try to bring the world community more or less into
agreement -- but quickly, and report that agreement to the
American people now. Preferably within hours.
Stockwell: To bring down that fear factor.
LaRouche: To bring it down -- he's got to DO something for a
change! This guy has done nothing so far as President! This is
the time for him at last to shoot that bolt, and do something.
All he has to do, he doesn't have to be a genius, all he has
to do is call Putin. And I'm sure that he'd get cooperation from
Putin, and would, on that basis, if those two powers, which are
the former superpowers, come to an agreement, to bring other
nations together as a consultative basis, what are we going to do
stop this show right now, to make sure it doesn't get out of
hand.
Stockwell: Exactly.
LaRouche: And then report that back to the American people.
That is exactly my druthers. That is what should happen within
hours.
Stockwell: The numbers that are coming in right now between
the two buildings -- 50,000 people worked in those two buildings
-- and they're showing a shot from the Statue of Liberty right
now, and you cannot even see Manhattan, because of the smoke.
LaRouche: This is a big one, somebody went for a big one.
Stockwell: Well, this is the financial capital of the world
that we're dealing with here.
LaRouche: Well, actually, London is the financial capital,
but --
Stockwell: Well, well, okay.
LaRouche: It's the image of the financial capital of the
world.
Stockwell: Right. I agree with that.
LaRouche: Sometimes the image is bigger than the real thing.
Stockwell: That's right. And because of the image of the
United States, and the position that it holds in the rest of the
world, and what New York means to the United States, it's like
going for the jugular. Or in this case, the carotid.
LaRouche: Somebody wants this thing to go out of control.
That's why they're doing this. This is not an attack; this is a
{provocation.} It's a provocation with an intention behind it. To
create a programmed reaction from the institutions of the United
States. This is not some dumb guy with a turban some place in the
world, trying to get revenge for what's going on in the Middle
East. This is something different.
Stockwell: Those of you who are interested, you're welcome
to call in here and talk to Mr. LaRouche yourself. You won't get
an opportunity like this very often. Locally, 254-5855. Utah
County, 470-5855. North Davis/Weaver County 670-5855. I'm going
to give you again a toll-free number where you can get some more
intelligence on all the stuff that we're talking about:
1-888-347-3258. Randy, you're on the Stockwell show.
Randy: I was in Washington less than a week ago and I just
went there with the feeling that I probably wouldn't see it
intact again.
Stockwell: Well, that was prophetic.
Randy: I've been feeling this, and I have feelings now about
the Olympics here. I want you to comment on it.
Stockwell: What we want to do here, I don't want to step on
anybody's feelings, Randy, but at a moment like this, what we
have to be using is knowledge, fact-based knowledge, common sense
and a cool head.
Randy: I think we need to have some thought of what's coming,
too.
LaRouche: What's coming is what's going to come in the next
days, the next hours. If the President of the United States, with
the support of people, make their own mistake, the world's going
to be in hell. That's the hurdle we've got to get over. If the
President of the United States and people around him panic, and
react to this, as some of the press leaks so far that I've heard
of, are indicating, then this world is going in hell. Therefore,
we have to worry about the next hours.
Stockwell: Yes, we want our responses about those next few
hours. Randy, thanks for your call. Richard, on the cell phone,
you're on the Stockwell show.
Richard: He repeated what I -- no, I don't want to repeat
this. I was worried about the Olympics and the security and the
risk that we're going to be at in about February, the whole thing
is worrisome to me, everything. But, the Olympics was on my mind.
That's what I was going to say.
LaRouche: That's fine. That's all right. But, the point is
that the next hours are going to be decisive.
Richard: Yes, I understand that.
LaRouche: The point is, sometimes when you go to the
Olympics, think of yourself maybe as in denial. Here, in the next
hours, the existence of the United States is in jeopardy. The
security of the Olympics, if you raise that as an issue, is
typical of what people will react to. It's like the
flight-forward or go into a foxhole under conditions of warfare.
Richard: Well, if you run for President, I'm voting for you.
Because you've got more common sense than anybody I've heard in
government anyplace.
Stockwell: Well, there's one vote from Utah for you, Lyndon.
Helen, you're on the Stockwell show.
Helen: Thank you so much, Jack. Mr. LaRouche, this system,
capitalism here in the developed countries, has become very
expensive for them to invest. They need quick returns on their
expensive investment, big returns, so that it is cheaper for them
to invest in a foreign country and they can wait for long-term
results. Do you think that this system has become so expensive? I
used to think a collapse, nobody wanted. But now, perhaps, they
think a collapse would bring this system, would consolidate their
gains. What do you think about that?
LaRouche: No, I think they're all crazy right now--
Helen: -- these people who are establishing a global
government.
LaRouche: They don't have any sense at all. They'll grab
assets, but they don't have any sense about the future. They're
that crowd. And I don't see, I deal with Washington, I deal with
these circles, and they just don't, there's no sense, in the
leadership of the Republican or Democratic party -- there may be
individual exceptions to that, but I'm talking about the party as
an organization, and the Federal government as an organization --
they have no sense of anything in the future. They are in
Lollipop Land, when it comes to economics.
Stockwell: You have made the comment in the past, that one
of the clear-cut, more obvious descriptions of somebody who
simply cannot be trusted in what they have to say regarding
economics, is someone who's been to economics school.
LaRouche: [laughing] Well, generally. There are a few
exceptions, of people who've studied economics, who have the
sense to know what they {don't} know. That's where I find
sensible people. Those who think they have all the answers, based
on what is taught as generally accepted doctrine, they're
{dangerous.}
Stockwell: Alright. We're going to go to traffic really
quick and then we'll be right back. Craig, up in the north,
you'll be next, questions regarding martial law.
[traffic break]
Stockwell: This means there's no panic on the streets of
Salt Lake.
We've got reports coming in right now of a plane crashing in
Pittsburgh. We'll get more information on that here in a moment.
Craig, you're on the Stockwell show.
Craig: Mr. LaRouche, with your knowledge of protocol for the
institutions of government and their reaction to something of
this magnitude today, do you have any feelings on martial law.
LaRouche: I think it would be the wrong thing to do. I think
we should set a quiet emergency, where law enforcement and other
agencies head an alert, pull in their reserves and have them
available, double check the security, pull security assets (if
they were off duty today) back in, go over the files and check.
Because we don't know what -- see, you're going to have things
that are going to go off, not necessarily as the result of any
centralized plan, but things will go off simply being ignited by
the kind of atmosphere. You're going to have people going crazy.
Stockwell: Yes!
LaRouche: You're going to have obvious kinds of problems.
So, therefore, I would say the United States should be mobilized
to have a heightened sense of security, but not martial law, and
not a national emergency, despite the horrible degree of
awfulness of what happened in New York. New York has an
emergency. They have a physical emergency that's going to require
a lot of assistance. Every place that they get hit is going to
require assistance. All right. That kind of mobilization--yes.
But keep it calm. The worst thing that can happen to us now, is
that the nut factor turns loose, and complicates what is already
a terrible problem.
Craig: The thought that comes to my mind is the Gulf War,
and the way the President's father reacted to that. A knee-jerk
reaction like that right now would be terrible.
LaRouche: We've got too many jerks already. No, we need
calmness. That's why I emphasize that somebody has to, I think,
press on President Bush. He's not his father. He may have a
different reaction.
Craig: I just passed my office building and the whole office
is down screwed around the television and the fear in the room is
just incredible.
Stockwell: Then you go back there, Craig, and institute a
sane, calm mind, and make sure that they don't panic. Give them
the Roosevelt inaugural address, nothing to fear but fear itself.
LaRouche: Give them what I told you, what I told them on the
air.
Stockwell: Yes. Thanks, Craig.
Craig: An honor talking to you, Mr. LaRouche.
LaRouche: Thank you.
Stockwell: About 15 minutes before the top of the hour.
There is a line available, 254-5855, if you'd like to talk to Mr.
LaRouche, an announced candidate, already, a pre-candidate for
the 2004 Presidential election in the Democratic Party.
I reported to you a year ago, in the Arkansas primary, where
the votes were stolen, the kinds of things that were done in
Michigan, the things that were done within the Democratic Party,
to make sure Mr. LaRouche never made it to the Convention, so
that they could deliver the cigar store Indian to you, Mr. Al
Gore.
I don't know if they are ready yet, to listen. It's like the
old Don McLain song "Vincent" [1972, American Apple Pie]--perhaps
they never will. But, one thing that is absolutely certain: Of
all the things you had to say this morning, the thing that smacks
me with the greatest amount of truth and reality, is that very
calm response that must be taking place in all of our minds and
hearts right now. Fear can drive people into some of the most
bizarre, most ridiculous, most murderous suicidal behavior
imaginable. And there is probably already a certain sector of the
country heading for the hills, which is exactly the opposite of
what we should be doing at this point in time.
Those of you who are listening to this program, listening to
Mr. LaRouche, who haven't gone to work, or you're talking to
people at work, or talking to family -- I have a brother-in-law
right downtown Manhattan. He's the first one that came to my
mind. Well, not downtown, he's a little north up near Cornell.
But, still my concern, and I'll be talking to him as soon as
phone lines can be established, but still, wherever you're
talking to family, wherever you're talking to co-workers, or
whatever else, you must keep a cool head at this point in time,
where we have so little facts as to what's happened, and we've
been dealt a heavy, heavy blow. Fifty thousand people work in
those two buildings. Both the buildings are now on the ground.
It's probably going to take a month before all this information
comes out. Let's go on here. Sharon, you're on the Stockwell
show.
Sharon: I was just commenting on an observation that today's
date is 9-1-1 actually, kind of coincidental, it seems like in
tragedy, things like that are coincidental.
Stockwell: Yes, 9-1-1. Interesting.
Sharon: The other thing I was going to say is I live here
in Park City, and I don't think the Olympics is a topic for
worry. I think our economy and our stock exchange is what we need
to be worried about, and more immediate.
I have a future son-in-law who works for Legg Mason in
Florida, and he said, from what they've heard, it's going to be
closed for the whole week.
Stockwell: The market?
Sharon: Yes.
Stockwell: I'm supposed to go to a stock market report here
in two minutes, and I suspect that's probably what they're going
to say, that there is no market.
Sharon: Well, I'm very concerned about the economy, and I
know that Mr. LaRouche is very expert in that area. And if he
would expound on some of that, we'd be interested.
Stockwell: Thanks.
Sharon: Bye.
Stockwell: One good thing we can say about this, if it does
close down the market for a week, that it will take another week
for it to crash.
(Mr. LaRouche laughs.)
LaRouche: And the other thing is, you know, the system is
going to crash, the financial system. Accept it. Don't say it
never will happen. It's going to happen. It's happening right
now.
What you do is you say, what do we do to save the economy?
And to save the economy, means do something that may not have
been too popular in much of the Salt Lake community recently. Go
back and think about what Franklin Roosevelt did in a situation
which was admittedly less severe than the world faces today, in
terms of economy.
But what he did worked. He took an economy that had been
ruined by Teddy Roosevelt, by Woodrow Wilson, and Calvin
Coolidge. And with all the difficulty he had in doing it -- and
the mistakes he made in the process -- he got the economy up.
What we have to do, is take that approach. We're going to
keep the jobs functioning, and we're going to keep the economy
functioning. There are ways to do it. Roosevelt pioneered in
that direction. We know a lot more of how to do that now than we
did when he was President. We're going to have to do it. It's
simply that way.
Think clearly. We can always, as a nation, as a
nation-state, with the powers of our government, and the powers
of our Presidency, there is no financial or monetary which this
government cannot bring under control, and cannot utilize the
situation to bring about a recovery. So, that's the way we have
to think about it.
Stockwell: All right. We're going to the Wall Street
Journal Report here in just a moment. I don't know if there's --
what there's going to be. If it's only for a second, we'll be
right back, of course.
But I've got about 30 seconds. Lyn, who was it that fired
the missile into the MI-6 Building a while ago? Do you remember
that? Yes, in London.
LaRouche: That's a little bit mysterious, as to who did
what to whom. The problem is, it was an operation. These things
don't happen in the British system, except through their Privy
Council apparatus.
Stockwell: Alright. We're going to jump over here really
quick to -- all the news web pages, the pages can't be displayed.
This is interesting. I keep trying to go to these news web pages
I was going to before. Maybe it's because they're updating them.
But let's see what we can pick up here, if we can pick up
anything. No, all I'm getting is an empty signal here. There is
no Wall Street Journal report. The building has been evacuated.
That's why. Alright. The Stock Exchange has been evacuated.
Alright. Well, that takes care of the market for today. Well,
at least it will last for another day.
Lyn, you were saying there a moment ago that the system was
over. Now, what a lot of people, what a lot of my listeners need
to understand, Mr. LaRouche, is the difference between our
economic systems of this country that's driving this market
crash, and basic economics.
That there's a difference -- you can go in right now, and
change the economics to save the system, rather than leaving the
same system of economics that's currently afloat and watching it
crash on the shores of absolute bankruptcy.
There are things that can be done right now to save our
system, and leave it intact -- or not the system, but the economy
of this country, with a drastic change in the system.
LaRouche: Very simply. You just use the principle of the
general welfare, as it's actually intended in the Preamble of the
Constitution, as Roosevelt used that authority. You declare
bankruptcy when needed.
For example, most of the banks of the United States are
potentially bankrupt, if they're not already bankrupt. Well, do
you let the banks shut down? You don't. You have the Treasury
Department move in on the Federal Reserve System, which is the
mother of these things. Take over the Federal Reserve System
under bankruptcy reorganization.
And under the authority of bankruptcy reorganization, in
cooperation with the states, who also control banks, charter
them, you make sure that banks must keep their doors open, will
keep their doors open.
You must ensure that employment is maintained. You must
ensure that actually it grows. You must ensure that pensions are
paid. You must ensure that communities function. And you must
also have some growth. Otherwise, how are you going to
reorganize out of bankruptcy if you don't have some real growth,
which means that certain projects, like infrastructure projects
-- necessary ones -- are put into place, to absorb some of the
unemployment which is inevitable, and get the economy moving
again.
On that basis, using nothing but the precedents we have in
our national law, our national history, we could reorganize this
economy out of a virtually total monetary and financial collapse,
by the will of government and the cooperation of the people, with
good leadership in a very short period of time.
Stockwell: Well, I'm thinking of about two or three
directions I want to go here. But we've only got a few minutes
left. I want to get Max on here real quick. Let me give you
another number again, ladies and gentlemen. 1-888-347-3258 for
more information about what we've been talking about today.
Max, you're on the Stockwell Show.
Max: You know, we've seen the world economy fall pretty
far. I think, with the World Trade Centers both collapsing, I
think that was the last domino to fall to world collapse.
Seriously.
And I've got quite a bit of money in the bank, I sold some
land recently. I'm thinking, do I need to go pull that out, or
would it do me any good to pull it out?
LaRouche: I would ask the question, would it do any good to
pull it out. You know, we're going toward a gold reserve system
in various countries, including Russia. Twelve countries have
now minted gold coins, which are more or less a monetary unit.
And the gold is going to increase.
So I think we're headed for a gold reserve system. I think
our basic option, above all things, apart from being prudent,
just plain prudent, be conservative. Don't go for the bucks, go
to save as much as you can. Diversify your risk. And try to
keep something there, so if something goes down, you'll have
something else. That's general good sense.
But the point is, we have to get the government to use its
powers to start a reorganization and recovery program, with an
understanding that we have to save the American people, and the
economy, and their future. It's that simple.
Max: I think the cow's out of the barn now. You know what I
mean? I'm talking what do I do right this moment? Because I'm
scared.
LaRouche: Diversify. Don't put all your eggs in one
basket. Go for minimal risk.
Max: So you're saying, Go pull some out, and get it
diversified right now, or --
LaRouche: Diversify.
Max: That's about the only chance I've got. Because there
might be a run on the banks tomorrow, right?
LaRouche: Diversity your risk. Buy some government bonds,
if you can.
Stockwell: That's one of the safest things out there, is
government bonds.
LaRouche: That's right.
Stockwell: Short-term government bonds.
LaRouche: Your deposit, your insured deposits, and the
regular banking system are two of the most secure things if you
don't have a lot of good gold there that you can turn into a
monetary asset.
Max: That's a good idea. Thank you.
Stockwell: Thanks, Max. Appreciate your call. Just a few
minutes left here. You know, I can't tell you how much of an
honor this is to have you on my program.
LaRouche: It's fun to be with you, Jack.
Stockwell: It's fun to have you here. We're going to try
and squeeze in -- oh, he's not going to come on. I thought I was
going to squeeze in another caller here for a moment.
The latest now. Fighter planes are scrambling to this
hijacked plane. They've got a hijacked plane on its way to
Washington.
LaRouche: They're going to try to --
Stockwell: They're going to shoot her down.
LaRouche: Bull it down or shoot it down.
Stockwell: Or force it off, yeah, to a path different -- But
boy, I'll tell you. This is -- you know, ever since you
mentioned this at the very beginning of the program, Lyn, it
keeps coming back up in my little prefrontal cortex here.
And that is that the Arabs don't have the ability to pull
somethiing of this level off. You feel pretty strongly about
that?
LaRouche: I know that. I know the Arab governments. I've
been talking to them directly or indirectly over some period. At
least, the key ones. And they don't want this kind of thing. But
I know who does want it.
Stockwell: Alright. Now, you were talking about possibly
the idea of the Israeli government --
LaRouche: Or certain factions within it.
Stockwell: Certain factions within it. Just like there are
certain factions within the Pentagon that would love for us to go
to war in the Middle East.
LaRouche: Same thing. Exactly. Like Wolfowitz, for
example. I don't think the world is safe with someone like him
in the Defense Department, frankly.
Stockwell: Yes.
LaRouche: First, he never served in the military.
Stockwell: Wolfowitz?
LaRouche: To my knowledge, he never had actual service in
the military. I don't think he knows what that means,
psychologically. I think people who have had some experience in
wartime service, or something like that, may have some sense of
what the reality of military operations are, particuarly if they
got to some higher rank, or some intelligence.
Or if they've studied military history with that background,
they might have some sense of what they're talking about.
But a guy like Wolfowitz impresses me, from the kind of
things I've seen him do, he doesn't know what time it is. He's
dangerous. He's dangerous, not because he's capable, he's
dangerous because he's incapable. A very bad idea to put that
nut in there.
I think a lot of generals would agree with me.
Stockwell: Yes. Well, we have about a minute left, Lyn.
Can you bring something sublime out of this?
LaRouche: I think the point is, when you get a crisis,
which is like a war. I mean, this -- what is reported in New
York, you're talking about 50,000 people possibly killed. Do you
realize that's in the order of magnitude of the official death
toll of --
Stockwell: of Vietnam.
LaRouche: -- of Vietnam.
Stockwell: Yes.
LaRouche: So this is not a minor thing. This is not
something that happened. This is not a terrorist incident. It's
something much bigger.
But when you get into a crisis like this, the first thing
you have to do, especially terrible crises, the more terrible
they are, the more this principle applies. DO NOT PANIC. DO NOT
SHOUT ``FIRE'' IN A CROWDED THEATER. Get the people safe and
out.
And what's needed now, is to recognize that we got to this
mess because the institutions of our government -- forget who did
it. Forget who did whatever's done.
But think about this could not have happened if our
government functioned. And the reason our government didn't
function and doesn't function -- I hope that changes quickly now
-- is because nobody was paying attention.
Stockwell: Yes.
LaRouche: Therefore, let us pay attention and recognize
that when we are running the economy the way we are running it,
the things we've been doing, we have set ourselves up for this
kind of crisis.
The thing to respond to a crisis like this, is to remove
long-term and medium-term causes of the crisis itself, of the
situation which allowed this to happen, to come to this pass.
Stockwell: Lyndon, we've got to go. Thank you so much,
sir, for being my guest today.
LaRouche: Thank you.
Stockwell: We'll talk to you again. Bye-bye.
- PRESS CRANKS UP BUSH FLIGHT FORWARD -
- by Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr. -
- September 11, 2001, 1730 EDT -
My monitoring of the coverage of the today's crisis by leading
television media, and others, shows a clear pattern of intent to
push President Bush into a typical case of cowardly "flight
forward." That coverage presents us with the image of the
terror-stricken soldier, messing his pants in a foxhole, who
charges against a machine-gun nest "to get it over with."
There is a clear impulse, radiating from these news media and
political sources, to have the President immediately take
awesome reprisals for the sake of appearing to deliver prompt
retribution, even without waiting to uncover the actual
perpetrators.
There are, in fact, a very limited number of entities which have
the highly sophisticated capability to have pulled over today's
terrorist operations. None of these are on the short list of
"usual terrorism suspects" or so-called "rogue states."
Unfortunately, the politically terrified coward would rather kill
someone, rather than uncover the actual perpetrators, and then
cover up the fact that the "reprisals" had been taken against the
wrong targets.
LEADING DEVELOPMENTS
TIMETABLE OF CRUCIAL EVENTS, SEPTEMBER 11
7:59 am American Airlines (AA) Flight 11, a Boeing 767, leaves
Boston for Los Angeles, with 81 passengers and 11 crew aboard.
8:01 am United Air Lines (UAL) Flight 93, a Boeing 757, leaves
Newark for San Francisco, with 38 passengers and 7 crew.
8:10 am AA Flight 77, a Boeing 757, leaves Washington Dulles for
Los Angeles with 58 passengers and 6 crew.
8:14 am UAL Flight 175, a Boeing 767, leaves Boston for Los
Angeles with 56 passengers and 9 crew aboard.
8:45/8:51 am Plane crashes into World Trade Center (WTC),
tearing gaping hole and setting it afire. Later determined to be
AA Flight 11.
9:03/9:06 am Second plane crashes into second WTC tower and
explodes. Assumed to be UAL Flight 175, but not confirmed. Both
towers burning.
9:17 am FAA orders shuts down all New York City airports.
9:30 am President Bush refers to "apparent terrorism attack" in
statement from Florida
9:30 am Manhattan is effectively sealed off.
9:40 am FAA halts all flight operations at U.S. airports, for
first time in U.S. history.
9:41/9:43 am Plane crashes into Pentagon, setting portions of
building afire. Later determined to be AA Flight 77.
9:44 am White House and Pentagon evacuated.
9:48 am U.S. Capitol (Congress) evacuated
10:00 am (approx) news reports of other incidents in DC,
including a car bomb at State Dept, a fire on the Mall, etc.
Later reported to have been incorrect, although still at around
1:00 pm, there were reports of "unexplained explosions" in the
vicinity of State Dept. and White House.
10:00/10:05 am South tower of WTC collapses
10:10 am Portion of Pentagon collapses.
10:10 am Plane crashes in Somerset County, Pennsylvia, later
determined to be UAL Flight 93. unconfirmed reports say that this
plane was intended to be crashed at Camp David, Maryland, the
site of the 1978 Camp David peace accords.
10:24 am FAA announces all inbound trans-Atlantic aircraft
flying into U.S. are being diverted to Canada.
10:28 am North Tower of WTC collapses.
10:45 am all federal office buildings in Washington are
evacuated
10:56 am SEC closes all U.S. markets for the day
10:57 am NY Gov. Pataki says all state offices are closed
1:04 pm President Bush speaks from Barksdale AFB in Louisiana,
says U.S. military is on high alert worldwide, and that U.S. will
hunt down and punish those responsible. Leaves Barksdale at 1:20
pm for an undisclosed location.
1:27 pm State of Emergency is declared for city of Washington,
D.C.
3:00 pm (approx) Navy dispatches ships to New York and
Washington, including missile destroyers and medical support.
3:47 pm Karen Hughes, Counsellor to the President, gives a
press briefing at the White House, says Bush is now at Offutt AFB
in Omaha, and is conducting a meeting of NSC via
telecommunications setup. Every federal agency has implemented
continuity of operations. US financial system is continuing to
operate, although financial markets are closed.
4:10 pm Building 7 of WTC complex is reported to be on fire.
5:20 pm Building 7 of WTC complex, a 47-story building,
collapses; was damaged from the fires in the twin towers earlier
in the day.
6:20 pm CNN reports that missiles are attacking Kabul.
6:30 pm Defense Secretary Rumsfeld says "in no way is the
United States government connected to those explosions."
7:00 pm (approx) Bush's helicopter touched down at White
House.
8:30 pm Pres. Bush delivers a televised address to the nation.
8:45 (approx) reports that WTC Building 5 has been considered
"on the brink of collapse" for most of the day.
9:00 pm (approx) Marriott Hotel near the WTC reported to have
collapsed.
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